Inside the Current Issue

Academic Repression in the First Person Presented here are Parts One and Two of a new, on-going series which lets professors, students and university employees tell their own stories of being fired, passed up for promotion, suspended or silenced for their political views.

Academic Repression in the First Person, Part One:
INTERVIEW WITH CAROL LANG

Is CCNY Trying to Silence a Long-time Critic on Trumped-Up Charges?

Spencer Sunshine

Carol Lang Photo: Michele "Burdie" Burdiak

A demonstration against military recruiters at City College on March 9 ended in violence - although the question of who was violent to whom is highly contentious. Three students were arrested that day, and two days later so was an employee - Theatre Department secretary Carol Lang. Although the charges against all fourwere eventually reduced to ACDs (an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal; it is not an admission of guilt but rather an agreement that if you are not arrested again in six months, all charges will be expunged for your records), Lang still faces five additional weeks of unpaid suspension from her job. The editor of The Advocate sat down with Lang on October 7 at City College to hear her side of things. (Please note that this interview was edited for brevity.)

Spencer Sunshine (SS): How long have you been at CUNY as an employee here?

Carol Lang (CL): 32 years

SS: Have you been at the City College the whole time?

CL: I started at Bronx Community in 1973 and, after the budget cuts in 1976, I came up to City. I've been here ever since then.

SS: And you're the Theatre department secretary?

CL: Yes, I am.

SS: Do you have a degree from CUNY? You said you were going to the Graduate Center at some point.

CL: I'm actually going for my doctorate in History. I'm ABD.

SS: And what are you doing your dissertation on?

CL: The British working class during World War I and the impact on the Russian Revolution.

32 YEARS OF PROTESTS, 0 ARRESTS

SS: When I mention your name to people, they often say you are a very vocal political activist.

CL: I am.

SS: What kind of activities have you taken part of in the past?

CL: Well I go to practically every single demonstration that [laughs] has ever happened at City College in the last 27 years - or I should say 32 years. And also I am very active in the union, which is DC-37, so I go to union meetings. I've been a delegate in my union. I'm just generally active in terms of all kinds of progressive causes at City - and throughout the city.

SS: Had you ever been arrested in the past at a demonstration?

CL: Never.

SS: Never been arrested for anything?

CL: Never.

SS: So, before the March 9 demonstration, I heard that there were two previous demonstrations against recruiters on campus at City College? Is that true?

CL: Well, we have them every semester, whenever the recruiters show up.

SS: Had you gone to these other demonstrations?

CL: I go to them all.

SS: So tell me what happened on March 9.

CL: Basically what happened was since the Army recruiters [at a job fair] were inside the Great Hall, which is this humungous room, and positioned themselves with Verizon and Bell Telephone... So the 20 of us decided to go over to the reservists table and shout "US Out of Iraq, Recruiters Off Campus," and that lasted, five minutes at the most.

SS: Did you stand in front of their table?

CL: We stood in front their table and we raised our fists, but we didn't prevent anybody from getting to the table. We didn't link arms, we didn't do anything to obstruct anybody's movement. But we made ourselves heard. Anyway, within a few minutes security sent out word to every security guard on the campus everywhere and surrounded us - we were about 20 people, tops, so there were more security guards than demonstrators... they surrounded us, and sort of nudged us out of the room - we stood in the hallway, because we were upset, and nobody wanted us to leave, and people were shouting "Whose school? Our school!"

SS: Did anyone strike a security officer during this time?

CL: No, we were just shouting. I actually had stopped, because I could feel that there was tremendous tension in the hallway, and so I stayed pretty much to watch what was going on, and to help anyone who was in distress.

[Lang described how she then witnessed security guards rough up and arrest three City College students: Nick Bergreen, Hadas Their and Justino Rodriguez.]

A MYSTERIOUS MISSING FILM

CL: In the meantime, two of the film students came out - one just to watch the whole melee, and the other one was taking a film... I am trying to get hold of it now, because he was threatened with suspension himself if he gave me the film.. He was trying to follow the security guards, to get their names, and then the security guards said "Give me your camera, give me your camera," and he said, "No, I'm not giving it to you" - so they were being quite aggressive towards him.

I got into a conversation with one of the heads of security and I told him that I thought that this absolutely had to be investigated, and he said, "It will be, Carol" - and he made sure to say "Carol." And then I had an argument with a woman from Student Affairs - the Vice President - about the question of free speech...

So, it was two o'clock, the demonstration had started around one, I was on my lunch hour, and I went back to work. And that's what happened on March 9th.

SS: And can this video that this student had be subpoenaed at the hearing?

CL: I'm going to try to do that, because he is 'having a hard time finding it.' Now, I don't know whether he's having a hard time finding it whether he doesn't want to. He told me at the end of last semester that they threatened him.

SS: Who's they?

CL: The administration. They specifically threatened him with suspension.

[Lang described the email sent out by CCNY President Gregory Williams the next day which had openly repeated the claims of the officers as if they were confirmed facts, and then how two days later at her workplace she was arrested during lunch, held for 36 hours, and then subsequently suspended without pay for 19 days]

SUSPENSION and LEGAL ISSUES

SS: And you were suspended without pay for 19 work days?

CL: Yes.

SS: And this is permissible under the university by-laws?

CL: Well, it turns out that my contract is filled with double-talk. On one hand, it says 'If the employee gets in trouble, there really needs to be an investigation, there needs to be a hearing' - the whole shebang. One the other hand, if the President deems the person a danger, he can remove them - without pay.

SS: So, the legal issues - on May 19, everyone agreed to take an ACD, and that's the end of your issues with the New York police. When did you return to work?

CL: I think it was April 11. We have three steps [in administrative hearings]. The first step is at the college, the second step is at CUNY - which is at 80th Street - and the third step is arbitration. So they suspended the first step hearing and let me come back on campus.

CUNY + UNION = KAFKA: THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING

CL: [At the second-step hearing] lots of people showed up to demonstrate, and they all wanted to get in, and both management, which is CUNY - and my union President - decided that they shouldn't be allowed in.

SS: Did they ask you if you wanted people to be allowed in?

CL: I told them that I wanted them in. And for obvious reasons management didn't want people to be allowed in, because it would put pressure on them, and it would politicize the situation, as opposed to "I beat up some cop." My union didn't want it because, in the middle of all this, we had nominations for elections for officers. And someone nominated me for President, so I was running against my union President. And she was so upset at me for doing this that she decided to have me disqualified because I was off the payroll and wasn't a member in good standing.

SS: So what happened at this June hearing?

CL: Well, the two Peace Officers, Lt. White, and the officer that said that I hit him [Lt. Takpui], both testified. The officer that said that I hit him identified me as 5'6", and he said that I hit him from the front, and I hit him with an object. Lt. White said I hit him from behind, and that I hit him with a closed fist. Lt. Takpui said I hit him on the wrist, Lt. White said I hit him somewhere between the wrist and the elbow. What happened, I believe, is that when he was trying to arrest people, he got hurt. Because he was slamming people around all over the place, so he probably banged his arm against the wall. So in any case, there were two different descriptions of what went on.

SS: Did you have a scuffle with any of these officers? Did you ever put your hands on any of them?

CL: No, I wasn't even near them!

SS: They never put their hands on you?

CL: No.

SS: No physical contact between any of the parties.

CL: No. I yelled a lot. I was going "Help her, help her, she is being arrested, help her" [when Hadas Their was being arrested].

SS: Were you yelling at the officer or at the student?

CL: Well, they were one. He had her arm pulled back.

SS: But you didn't try to pull his arms off of her?

CL: No, no. [At the hearing] I had two witnesses to testify for me, and I testified, too. I testified for one minute - my lawyer asked me what happened, and then Paul Occhiogrosso said to me - and he said this to everybody - 'Did you go to any agency to complain about security?' And we hadn't gone, because the only person you could go to was to Williams, who was President, because they answer to Williams - and Williams had already determined that we were guilty and they were innocent. It didn't matter to them.

SS: After the hearing, they found you guilty. Who is it that found you guilty?

CL: The person that wrote the decision was Occhiogrosso, the person who signed it was this woman Malone, who's some sort of VP at CUNY.

SS: Was she present at the hearing?

CL: Not at all. She read his notes - Occhiogrosso's notes. He works for City College, he's the Dean of Faculty and Staff Relations.

[Having been found guilty, the last step is now arbitration. The City College administration is calling for Lang to be suspended without pay for an additional five weeks. ]

ARBITRATION: MORE SUSPENSION?

SS: So you're facing five weeks suspension, and that will be decided on November 29th. Who's going to decide this?

CL: An arbitrator... from the American Arbitration Association.

SS: Where's the arbitration going to be?

CL: 1633 Broadway, I think it's on 50th Street, 10th floor. It is on November 29, at 10am, and I'm calling for everybody to show up at the room!

SS: Are people going to be allowed inside?

CL: Well, according to my lawyer, they're allowed to come inside. So I've been going to many meetings of left-wing organizations and telling my story and encouraging people to show up. You know, my union wouldn't even pass a resolution to demand that the City University drop the charges.

SS: Haven't several CUNY organizations passed resolutions?

CL: The PSC, which is the teachers' union, passed a resolution; the Faculty Senate, the CUNY-wide Faculty Council passed a resolution saying that they should drop the charges, that it was outrageous.

SS: Do you think that your arrest was an attempt to intimidate CUNY workers from attending political demonstrations, especially anti-recruiting demonstrations?

CL: Absolutely.

SS: Do you think he [President Williams] ordered, or asked, that you be charged?

CL: Of course.

SS: The officers could've arrested you at that time, when they arrested the other students.

CL: You think?

SS: You were at the scene for hours?

CL: For an hour.

SS: Did any of them speak to you at the time?

CL: I spoke to the head of Security at the time.

SENDING A MESSAGE TO WORKERS

SS: Do you have anything to add?

CL: I think that the difference between me, and the students, is that people assume that students do these things - they're sort of youthful, exuberant, and students rebel, and all of that. But you don't want workers to rebel. Workers don't normally rebel, especially in this country they're pretty quiet. Workers have lots of power, workers could shut everything down if they want to. I mean, if people were conscious enough and decided not to work, workers could end this war like that [snaps fingers]. If they decide not to produce the war material, not to ship the war material, not to allow it to be boarded... So nobody likes an administrative goal for workers to do these kind of things, and they really do want to prevent any sort of transgressions on the part of the working class. So that's why I think they're being harder on me than they are on the students, because really to send a message to everybody else, that we won't have this here, that this won't be tolerated. Their cases are over, and mine is still going on.

Academic Repression in the First Person, Part 2: This Could Happen to You